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Message started by webmaster on 10/12/07 at 10:13:02

Title: site moderators?
Post by webmaster on 10/12/07 at 10:13:02
As you all are aware (I'm sure), there is no moderation to this site at all -- mainly because it's always been my belief that we're all adults here and should be able to comport ourselves as such. However, I've recently had an increase in feedback re: the board and was wondering what the general consensus is about moderation.

Don't worry about how we'll choose them, we can cross that bridge if we come to it.

You can discuss it in this thread.

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by Rosemary on 10/12/07 at 10:46:26
I don't know about more moderators, but I had been thinking about bringing up the subject that now that Justin's record is out there will hopefully be more of the general public on here and perhaps we should begin to conduct ourselves in a more 'respectable manner' so as not to scare off the young, the impressionable and of course the 'real' fans who will once again be showing up around here now that there is some glory and music discussion to be had.

We've had it to ourselves all these years adrift in the land of no record deals, but now it's time to remember that this is not our private site and Justin's public image is tied up in this as well.

Signed,
Hey, I'm probably the worst offender anyway, or at least in the top several
Rosalita


Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by abre mucho grande latte on 10/12/07 at 11:02:56
I agree with you Rosemary.  If we were all adults- we would not need one.  But some on here are obviously needing some moderation.

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by welshgirl on 10/12/07 at 11:10:01
Rosie, please don't start being all respectable on us. That really would be scary.....


Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by Tintagel on 10/12/07 at 11:22:50
I agree and I think Joe should be one of the moderators - give him something to do instead of eat pizza and wank off.

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by welshgirl on 10/12/07 at 11:23:56
I think I'd be deleted if Joe was a moderator

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by webmaster on 10/12/07 at 11:27:51
Heh, don't worry, if there WERE moderators we would first introduce a "code of conduct" that they would have to enforce; Joe just couldn't ban at will. Plus, I would get final say :D (*alison rubs hands together and cackles*)

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by Tintagel on 10/12/07 at 11:45:08
I can see Joe trying to ban himself right now.  ;D

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by David on 10/12/07 at 12:04:38
Not sure it'd stop someone from being a thingy, but it's not a bad thing to bring in.

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by webmaster on 10/12/07 at 12:14:12

David wrote on 10/12/07 at 12:04:38:
Not sure it'd stop someone from being a thingy, but it's not a bad thing to bring in.


We *need* to stop being twatastic on this board. I've heard from over 5 new folk in the past two months that they love Del Amitri/Justin but won't use this board because of the attacks on members, and honestly? I'm a bit tired of it.

Mods would probably have the right to: a) delete posts and b) possibly ban people. I think post deleting by people who spend a lot of time here would help, though.

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by thedooner on 10/12/07 at 15:29:38

Quote:
think post deleting by people who spend a lot of time here would help, though.


not sure what you mean Alison?can you give us more?

am i the only person on here that enjoys joe's posts?

he does not take himself serious so why should these web surfers find insults and derogurotory remarks in a few posts on here?

i am a member of quite a few band sites and,hand on heart,even though i got slagged on here,i love this frickin place!!

justin has a dry and strange sense of humour,why cant his fans have the same?

censership on websites are bad,end of story.

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by webmaster on 10/12/07 at 15:38:10

thedooner wrote on 10/12/07 at 15:29:38:
censership on websites are bad,end of story.


So is bad spelling. :P

The point is not to censor anyone. The point is that some people take things too far. I have no problem with most of Rory or Joe's posts, either. There is a line that shouldn't be crossed, though, and I'm tired of people toeing it purposefully.

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by Tintagel on 10/12/07 at 15:39:40
I both agree and disagree. If you know that Joe or anyone else on here is joking around it is well and good and that is part of the fun of being on this board

But - if you were a newbie - It is a little much to take at first and you might just be scared off before you had a chance to settle in.


Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by webmaster on 10/12/07 at 15:43:15

Tintagel wrote on 10/12/07 at 15:39:40:
I both agree and disagree. If you know that Joe or anyone else on here is joking around it is well and good and that is part of the fun of being on this board

But - if you were a newbie - It is a little much to take at first and you might just be scared off before you had a chance to settle in.


Maybe I should start by making a "Newbies" area, and have people agree to certain standards there, instead. Once someone moves out of that area it could be more "open season".

What do you think?

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by David on 10/12/07 at 16:46:03
In fairness, and I'm quite prepared for Joe's tantrum, the get out clause of "oh, it was just a laugh" is really weak.

Just because some people see it as a joke doesn't mean everyone will take it that way.  It would be daft to assume that we don't have people who visit the board who might be vulnerable in some way and that some of the comments may really upset them.  Add to that that some of the behaviour constitutes as bullying and you've got a fairly shit community which is unlikely to grow because of the very fans that should want it to.

I know of one ex-poster who thinks certain members on the board are "twats" because of how they treated them.  I mean: isn't this meant to be a fan-site?  Running a wind-up is fine, but when it basically amounts to purposely trying to upset someone, surely post deletions and temporary bans are needed to make it clear that behaviour isn't tolerated?

A newbie area wouldn't solve anything, it just validates the shitty behaviour and basically tells anyone new that they are a child for wanting to be treated with some measure of civility.

This isn't censorship - the site is privately owned and you join in accordance of the rules.  i don't think Alison's asking for people to moderate their opinions, just act with some civility to each other.

I think we're lucky that Alison has been so tolerant so far, because there's plenty of other forums I visit where people get permanent ISP bans for much less.

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by unbeliever on 10/12/07 at 16:53:21
Yes to new mods - suggest that whoever does this does it anonymously though (new username) and like you say has a code of conduct to follow.  Kinda like the secret police! ;)

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by Rosemary on 10/12/07 at 18:24:18

webmaster wrote on 10/12/07 at 15:43:15:

Tintagel wrote on 10/12/07 at 15:39:40:
I both agree and disagree. If you know that Joe or anyone else on here is joking around it is well and good and that is part of the fun of being on this board

But - if you were a newbie - It is a little much to take at first and you might just be scared off before you had a chance to settle in.


Maybe I should start by making a "Newbies" area, and have people agree to certain standards there, instead. Once someone moves out of that area it could be more "open season".

What do you think?


I love it. The Delfan newbie Intensive Nursery, where they are coddled at first, then jostled about lightly, then when they think they are ready, given a full on headbutt Glesgastyle, then have to sign a release of their firstborn to joe prior to entering the Eagle Lounge version of the website. I don't know whether to laugh or cry that it's come to this. It's all so crappity smacking PC ;D :'( ;D :'( :-?

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by Only My Looks Remain on 10/13/07 at 14:51:17
I hate any form of censorship,of course I'm going to think like that you are no doubt thinking.

If this site wants to become like so many on the net then so be it,but I always thought it was beyond cool that nothing ever gets deleted and that people dont get banned apart from Hayley but she has learnt her lesson to be fair...

Truth is I am this board and if anybody should be a mod it should be me.

And David, who is this ex poster who dont like the banter now??








Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by hayley on 10/14/07 at 05:46:55

wrote on 10/13/07 at 14:51:17:
...people dont get banned apart from Hayley but she has learnt her lesson to be fair...


;D  You understand how very far from the truth that is don't you?  

Or at least that I didn't learn the lesson you're probably referring to?   ;)


I've no problem with there being moderators - it certainly comes in handy when we get spammed.  As long as there are guidelines about when they should be deleting or banning and they're prepared to argue their point when they do it then it works out ok.  

I love the del boards - I wouldn't have loitered so long if I didn't - but there are times when this place is unpleasant and while I think I've been pretty good about all the crap slung my way (with only one targetted episode of real retaliation in 5 years!) I do get annoyed sometimes when I see people being attacked who've stayed out of the fray and not asked for it.  If people want to watch a few of us throw pooh at each other from the sidelines then they've got to expect a little bit of splatter but not that some of the combatants should band together and turn on them.

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by Hilary on 10/14/07 at 09:51:15

webmaster wrote on 10/12/07 at 12:14:12:

David wrote on 10/12/07 at 12:04:38:
Not sure it'd stop someone from being a thingy, but it's not a bad thing to bring in.
We *need* to stop being twatastic on this board. I've heard from over 5 new folk in the past two months that they love Del Amitri/Justin but won't use this board because of the attacks on members, and honestly? I'm a bit tired of it.

Speaking as someone who spent several years trying to moderate a lot of the regulars here in another venue, I can say it's a thankless task.  For every person that messages you to say they don't want to post due to fear of attack, you'll get another saying that it's all part of the character of the place and you should stop being a bossy bitch.

Best summed up as "herding cats".

Good luck!   ;)

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by David on 10/14/07 at 10:40:40
I agree it's thankless, but when people use the argument that "it's the character of the board" they are just trying to validate and justify their terrible behaviour.

How many people have joined, seen one of Joe's posts and then run away, never to return?  Sad truth is that we are representative of Justin's fanbase, arguably the most devoted of them, and we do him a disservice by appearing so hostile due to the posts which are designed to attack others.

I'm am anti-censorship, but this is not censorship: you're entitled to voice your opinion, but not to berate and humiliate others for the sake of a quick laugh in doing so.  You can disagree with someone without having a go, surely?

For example, the glory hunters thread: what was the purpose of that except to intimidate these returned or new posters?  How many people do you think would visit the board, see that and really want to post anything?

We "shouldn't" need moderators, but the truth is that we do.

How does everybody else see a set of rules for a moderator?

Surely, if someone disagrees with the moderator, they can complain to Alison still for her to take it up - to have rules is overly prescriptive .

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by Only My Looks Remain on 10/14/07 at 10:49:24
Did anybody read the glory hunters thread and thought it was for real?

Oh my good lord....It was the most silly thing anybody could say,but people still think its for real?

Time to get me coat I think...

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by Rosemary on 10/14/07 at 10:50:37
You have truly become the voice of reason David, and I say that as someone who was the target of your attacks in  the past. One man's attack is another's 'flame' or 'witty retort' or 'windup'. Most of us are used to it, but the newbies Justin and his record co. will be trying to attract aren't. It is w/a bit of sadness that I must have to admit that we need to sugarcoat this place for awhile. Another option would be to do like Alison suggested and have a separate no holds barred, no one under 18, no whiners section of the board and to just keep the meat and potatoes Del/Justin music talk separate and sanitised. Not that we couldn't also talk about it on the Dark Side! My 2 cents...

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by abre mucho grande latte on 10/14/07 at 11:03:19
David is right.  I hate to say it- but other boards do have moderators and these boards are highly successful in keeping people coming back.  No one likes to be personally attacked on a board.  

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by Hilary on 10/14/07 at 12:35:24
David, I agree with every word you say, but unfortunately you'll never get a consensus.

While the vast majority of folk are capable, and do, post while being civil and respectful, it is very difficult to draw a consistent line in the sand where you say up to the line is "having a laugh" and beyond the line is being offensive.  Particularly when you have a) people who are more sensitive to potential affronts than others, b) wildly differing sense of humours and c) huge cultural differences due to the international nature of the readership.

And that's just the every day banter. It's damned near impossible to prevent pre-planned major wind-ups unless you're psychic or one of the protagonists tells you after several pints in the pub.

What happened in the past was a split where for general anarchy with a vague del-related flavour you went to the UK forums, and for a more restrained on-topic atmosphere you came here.  Now we're all in one place the only way I could see it working would be to have an on topic only forum with good behaviour only and strict moderation.  I understand David's point about it validating the bad behaviour on the rest of the board, but I can't think of another way of doing it.  Not while we have several posters who relish the attention they get when they do something offensive.

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by David on 10/14/07 at 13:17:04
Joe, whether for real or not - someone who doesn't know you and your sense of humour could very take that as being genuine.  Add to that it not being especially witty and there you go.

Rosie, I find you confusing - my "attacks" on you?  I've never been one to post topics simply to upset people and I only have a go in response to someone having a go at me - which is very much the case where you've been involved and, in addition, I don't recall anything we've posted to each other as being especially offensive - it's just an argument.  I have no issue with people arguing on forums, it's when it descends into bullying and aggressive, intimidating posts that causes the problem.

Perhaps it should be as simple as:

Del-related - music and del-related chat
General Discussion - beware offensive content.  By the same measure though, some things should be out of bounds no matter the arena for mentioning it.

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by webmaster on 10/14/07 at 21:35:56
Okay, I created a new off-topic board. Do what you will there.

Also, I am going to move the old stuff out of Discussion to the Off-Topic board, but it may take a while, as I'm only ONE WOMAN!

:D

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by Johnny Too Bad on 10/15/07 at 00:23:54
Everyone's offended by different things. I get a bit fed up of the sizeist, racist and homophobic sentiments occasionally expressed on this site (especially by that big English shirtlifter Brady) but the wind ups and general abuse is just good knockabout entertainment. Burke only fell for the US Tour thing because he's a knobhead, not because there was any real ill-intent.

No mods. Leave us alone.

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by David on 10/15/07 at 02:34:55
Some wind-ups are funny, some aren't - that's just personal taste.

You can't apply a rule-set arbitrarily, but you can say that certain things like constant personal attacks aren't allowed - it would just help the community grow a bit and that can't be a bad thing, surely?

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by Johnny Too Bad on 10/15/07 at 08:23:43
I'm a country boy. I like small communities.

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by janea on 10/15/07 at 11:43:04
The trouble with wind-ups is that you never know what is going on in a person's life.  Joe said something several years ago which really hurt me at a point when I was at an extremely low edge.  

I was so upset by it I just didn't want anything to do with anything or anyone remotely involved with Del Amitri for about six months. I just disappeared for a bit. i didn't even listen to thier music at all during that time.  

I am sure Joe had no idea of the effect his throwaway comment had on me and didn't mean to upseet me like that - and probably at another time I might have shrugged it off and ignored him, but it was the wrong comment at the wrong time.  

Fortunately my love of Del Amitri was stronger than my antipathy so unfortunately for Joe, I came back  ;D  And have shrugged off and learned to ignore many a hurtful comment since then.

BUT it does go to show that people can be genuinely hurt by what other people think are jokey remarks, and it's always better to stop and think before writing inflammatory posts.



Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by Only My Looks Remain on 10/15/07 at 13:00:08
Is this a wind up ;)

Jane if that is true then I am deeply sorry,you can only take my word when I say I mean that.

I dread to think what I said.Christ almighty though how can something a stranger say have such an effect-Please PM over this.

So what I'm going to say now I will stand by and in a way of really making amends I will stop with the evil comments and nasty digs,its gonna be hard but if it means anyting in way of making it up to Jane then I will do it.


Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by Tintagel on 10/19/07 at 08:06:50
Don't have time to read whole thread but orginally voted for a moderator but I think I have changed my mind now. Am now thinking that we all pretty well mod ourselves. If anyone here goes too far someone here usually jumps in and tells that person. I have been to other boards and most are dead boring so rarely visit them. This one, at least has some life - allbeit it is rather twisted. My two cents - sorry - pence.

Now I have another gig to get ready for......

P.S. He played In The Frame last night - Yeah!!!!!


Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by travers on 10/19/07 at 08:16:42
thingy, he always plays more away from glasgow.

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by travers on 10/19/07 at 08:17:17
be honest, aren't you a bit fed up now seeing him like 5 or 6 times in such a short period?

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by Tintagel on 10/19/07 at 08:35:50
Thought I would be but sadly I am not - he has been really good - only night he seemed nervous was Glasgow and his patter has been pretty good too. I am now thinking of trying to make the London gig before I go and have been spending all my free time studying Joe's pictures so I will recognize him.

Be afraid - be very afraid!!!

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by travers on 10/19/07 at 08:38:10
you sound like a crappity smackin stalker, you wouldn't be the first..

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by Tintagel on 10/19/07 at 08:48:54
Told Justin so and he just said Stalk away.

And as for forgetting your password - I would have though Arse an easy enough word to remember.   ;)

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by travers on 10/19/07 at 08:53:22
thoughT...

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by travers on 10/19/07 at 08:54:12
you're on holiday in another country, get off the crappity smackin internet and live a little.

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by Tintagel on 10/19/07 at 08:57:55
Had the net surgically attached - love you all so much that I just couldn't stay away.

Which show were you going to again?

Title: Re: site moderators?
Post by the last to know on 10/19/07 at 10:13:40
It really has Not been boring seeing Justin 5 times (well, 4 times, the 5th is tonight).   More on that after I get home this weekend, I digress.

No to more moderators, even though some pranking and slagging off have gone too far.  One person's "too far" is not everyone's -- who's going to decide where the line is?  Hilary has it right, it would be like herding cats and not very effective or satisfactory for anyone.  I can  see why newbies are  scared off, but I don't see more moderators changing that.

--shit, must dash

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